Thursday, August 25, 2005

Religion and discipline

All religions seem to lay emphasis on self control, renunciation of sensory pleasures, submitting these pleasures to the supreme and dissociating ourselves, implying everything about human existence is inadequate and wrong unless it is dedicated to the search of truth/supreme being. There seems to be a implicit punishment associated with these religious rituals and rites when they are not followed. Either no Moksha, or rotting in hell ...

One may choose to take this path or not, but its impact on people seem to be diverse.

1. Fear as the motivating factor to do something good
2. Requiring a moral police all the time
3. Suffering from guilt if one violates from these rules and regulations either voluntarily or by force - leading to neurosis and psychosis
4. Difficulty in moving out of the comfort zone, preferring to suffer rather than try something new
5. An extreme belief that one is an inferior being and therefore acting in a servile manner in all contexts or putting on a front of aggressive behavior to compensate for this inferiority

I do wonder if religious scriptures are binding us or liberating us?

12 comments:

Kasthuri said...

Paavai,
Very interesting post. Morals and Ethics - my favourite topic. I had this question for a long time and its pretty clear to me now. While it is true that all religions lays its emphasis on self-control and renunciation of sense pleasures, it is Vedanta alone which comes up with a logical explanantion of why they should be practiced and how they can be practiced. Your view in this post sort of represents christian faith which believes in 'rotting hell' or 'happy heaven'. Vedanta never ascribes to such view.
There is no hell in the religion of Vedanta and there is no permenent heaven. There is no authoratative scriptures which believes in permenant heaven/hell. If there are any, it should be rejected. There is no punishment for being 'eat,drink and merry' nor there is any reward for not yielding to senses. This is beautifully explained in Gita where Sri Krishna says he never punishes the wicked nor rewards the meritorious. Its all we who shape our destiny and God is just a dispeller of actions. He is like a bank manager who sanctions loan if we have credit balance, otherwise he gives the loan with a higher interest. So, its always with us to receive the loan or not. These morals and eithics are the things that help us to lead a loan free life. Therefore, in Hinduism it is not necessary to abide by them and it is in the best interest of us to follow them. The vedantic scripures are there only for liberating us and does not bind us into any dogmas and illogic. It is the interpretation in right spirit is what that matters finally.

Kasthuri said...

Btw, moksha is not heaven in Hinduism.
According to Christianity, heaven is a place where we can be 'happy' for indefinite period of time after we die - which can be refuted easily. We can't be indefinitly happy as that will not be happiness anymore. We will want to get out of that state at some point of time and that's where comes the theory of reincarnation. Moksha on the other hand is a state where we go beyond the pleasures and pains of this world. It is the end of samsara. It is state of immortality, a state of bliss and not happiness per se.

TJ said...

An Idealist way of life - by Dr.S.Radhakrishnan is an excellent book on what is religion. Why and how did that concept evolve and what are the alternatives etc. That gives the answers to your queries. [Though SR is a spiritualist he has approaced this academically].

Dubukku said...

My personal opinion Religions are binding in some places and practices(may be for a good reason). But I generally go by the "vishesha dharma" principle on a case to case basis not by the else part of the condition.

Unknown said...

Paavai, nalla ezhudhirukeenga. Enakku idha pathi ellam onnum theriyaadhu. Just marking my presence here thats all :)

Paavai said...

Hey Kasthuri, you have given a very lucid and easy to understand explanation. It might be a good idea to have a discussion forum to discuss and learn from each other. I do learn a lot from what you write and thanks for taking the time off to provide this perspective.

One question - when I was a kid we were taken to the museum in Chennai and shown these various torture equipment in hell. Also what is anniyan's garuda puranam all about?

WA - As you can see from my post, I am trying to see the tip of the ice berg, which by itself is too high for me :)- Thanks for dropping by. Essentially on festival days and other special days like death anniversary, it would be a torture for us kids - don;t touch this, don;t eat this etc. etc and more often than not, festivals became a tiring affair rather than something to celebrate and be happy. I am sure that these were misinterpreted code of conduct handed down by someone , nevertheless, I can tell you that festivals like vinayaka chaturti were an anxious affair, everyone used to get stressed out at home

Dubukku - I like the way you have connected my previous post with this

Paavai said...

TJ - Let me get hold of the book and come back with many more naive questions. You all have a beginner here who is waiting to learn more. Thanks for suggesting the book. Have you read Vivekananda's biography by Ra Ganapati?

Kasthuri said...

Paavai,
I would be glad to part with little things that I understand and be exteremely happy to know things from u. The Vedas/Upanishads which are the sole authority of Hindu thought never talks about hell. There are no references in Vedas/Upanishads that describes hell or talks about hell. The ideas of hell and torturous after-life are found in some parts of Mahabharata and puranas like Garuda purana. But, they are not authoritative texts. And there are reasons for such ideas. There is a proverb "spare the rod and spoil the child" or "adiyada maadu padiyadu". Not all people can understand higher truths. For them things has to be imposed for the smooth running of the society. And these concepts are introduced to induce the importance of maintaining morals and ethics to people of different temperments and that's why we see them in almost all religions. From the absolute point of view, the earth is as bad as hell. Why do we need another hell ?

Usha said...

Hi,
Yes i remember being brought up on a diet of "swami kannai kuthuvar" for violations from norms!!!I guess that is all a child can understand and not a discourse on how God is compassion incarnate and the goal of this mortal soul is to surrender completely and hope to merge with the ONE ultimately. Some of these colourful fantasies about hell must have been for making the illiterates see the need to stay away from mischief.
Like enclosing the child's crib so he does not fall off. But once the child grows up, it knows what to do and what not to do by experience and observation.
I suppose one good ground rule on which to base a good life is not to do anything that is harmful to self and others.
Do you prefer to have all communication through this site? When i respond to your comments the mail returns undelivered. It might be nice to have an email id - but of course, it is your choice.

Vinesh said...

Paavai,

Mainly wanted to thank you for your words of support on my blog! Orange Juice is now back in supply!

About this post of yours, I used to think that binding myself to one faith was the only way to happiness. It's been two years since I shed that perception, and I'm a happier person.

Kasthuri said...

Paavai,
Blogrolling u. Hope u don't mind.

Paavai said...

vinesh, good to see you back in "form " and thanks for your comment - I think it is a question of whether we see religion as binding or instilling discipline that strenghthens the will

Kasthuri - no worries, please go ahead